Was thinking, if there ever would come an event where a token migration would take place for whatever reason. Would it make sense to have REN tokens run on renVM’s network? Since smart contract capability is coming?
If I’m not mistaken that would also give the possibility of REN tokens to be on any chain as just REN (i/o renREN). Only a mint would be needed on destination chains. (host chain being renVM)
That would also make the project more independent from any chain and be more chain agnostic.
Great question, and something we have been thinking about. However, there are currently no concrete plans to make such a migration. Also, this question would probably have been better as a post in the general category.
I too have concern about Ren’s incentives development. I agree with most of the your concerns @loong except the deflationary possibility. You were right in mentioning the possible downside from it, but I think the deflationary idea should never be entertained. It’s unfair for token holder who purchase it to be force to lose their assets that they invest. If it was just needed for more to be online then the threshold of these coins to run dark node would have been set to a lower limit at first, maybe 10,000. I’m guessing that more coins were require to prevent malicious attack while the token price was quite low then. However as the coin is approaching $1. It cost 100k to run the node and if it reach $10 it’s $1M. Incentivize someone to run a $1M node with a low apr with risk of let’s say anything could happen such as the project could not sustain due to whatever reason I can’t come up with, god forbid – does not seem feasible. As if it was $1M everyone would rather buy $1M BTC, it’s safe most likely make the best ROI. So the risk everyone hopping of is high here as if this coin can reach $10. So there must be more use for these tokens and let’s say in theory all the nodes are up and running all 10,000 of them. Will that be enough nodes to scale as more transaction go through exponentially? All I’m saying this is converging to is that it seems that these limits make sense to bootstrap, but we now have a project limitation our hands. It seems an exciting start, but end up being more of a straightforward ROI like and index fund and for the crypto space, that’s seem boring as far as for the tokenomics of it. Imagine Tesla, it doesn’t make all that ROI yet but it’s so exciting people are willing to invest more because of the possibility, so what’s the possibility with these coins? DeFi is exciting, but it all still boils down to us wanting to make money, control our finance and being able to earning substantially, our future earnings to have a free life to go after our dreams. If there’s limitation on the coins as far as how it can appreciate, I think this project will cap out as just an important component in the ecosystem, like elmers glue for paper. Necessary, but eh. I don’t have any idea, but I just want to express my outlook so I could be enlighten of what I’m wrong about here. I am planning to run a node because I believe in the utility of this project, but I could see myself being de-incentivize at some point if something else attracts my time with a better ROI or this coin appreciate without any more use cases, with a possibility of deflation.
First of all, we are discussing inflation of the REN supply, not deflation . Just a point on nomenclature.
Your comparison to Tesla is not really applicable here. At some point, Tesla needs to make returns to survive. The same is true of REN. I do not think REN would (or should) reach $10 unless there was enough ROI to support that price. Otherwise, node operators would sell, driving the price back down, and so on. There is no point trying to be “exciting” with the tokenomics. That is not a sustainable way of securing the network. Being long REN is being long on cross-chain interoperability, not being long hype.
Your point about being disincentivized by inflation as a node operator does not actually make sense. You would be more incentivized (and that’s the point). In the scenario we were discussing, the inflation pays out to nodes, giving them better ROI. Their proportional ownership in the network slowly increases overtime, and the proportional ownership of people not using their REN to run nodes slowly decreases overtime.
Having said all this, we are very much in the world of hypotheticals. I do not anticipate that we will seriously consider inflation any time soon (if ever), because, if nothing else, there are a lot of technical constraints.
Yes you’re right I meant deflation. “Being long REN is being long on cross-chain interoperability,” this resonate and answers my concerns, thanks for that. I’ve watch part of your interview on where high price fluctuation may affect security of the network so the use case for the tokenomics needs to minimal, in this case on purpose of dark node operation. I guess now that I’m understanding it more, my final concern would be, regarding this is the intrinsic and extrinsic motivators. Let’s say for profit and non-profit reasons. The non-profit reasons of course would be have a better decentralized world, but the profit factor would be, if the you’re getting about a 10% ROI on this once it reach a certain threshold, wouldn’t you be motivated to work on a different project and not be fully concentrated on this? If something brought you a better ROI long term, wouldn’t you do that instead once you’ve let’s say made enough from this project? I guess I’m trying to understanding the motivators here, It’s like the S&P 500 I would put some of my money there, but I would rather go spend my time with some hyper growth activities until I’m old. Just trying to learn the longer term business model here.
I don’t know if possible, but making Darknode participation more scalable in the future, might generate more interest. For example, once the market price reaches a certain point, then it takes 10,000 REN, 1,000 REN, etc to stake for a node. Those that got in early and HODL get the chance for “free” splits. If I put in 100k now for one node, but then do a 10:1 split in future, now I can enjoy 10 nodes, maybe sell off a few, but still don’t have to be committed to all my investment in 1 node. Because as soon as the price shoots up (which we all hope it will), the incentive to divest the node and take the cash become greater.